Minister Schulze, in the context of changing times there is currently a lot of discussion about relations with the countries of the Global South. You yourself have called for a stronger focus on the interests of partner countries, stressing the importance of working together on the basis of respect and reciprocity. What does this mean for cooperation on migration policy?

Svenja Schulze: Germany is desperately searching for skilled workers. Many of our partner countries have a strong interest in offering their people further prospects through regular migration. The opportunities this opens up are huge. More regular migration might also mean less irregular migration with all the dangers it brings. A fair migration policy that is founded on a rights-based approach also promotes sustainable development. We have to develop partnerships which identify common interests and we have to take our partners’ concerns seriously, including issues such as the emigration of educated and skilled people. At the same time, however, we must also have the courage to assert our own interests and values, for instance by demanding rights and protection for migrants. Development policy should not be used as leverage for controlling migration in our own interest but rather as an instrument to pursue common interests.

How does this work in the case of cooperation with authoritarian governments?

German development policy contains approaches that enable us to continue to support local populations even in fragile, authoritarian contexts and to work towards sustainable development without strengthening the position of authoritarian regimes. In cases like this, we work directly through local authorities, international organisations or with civil society actors, for instance. With regard to migration cooperation and selecting partners for this cooperation, it is important that we are not just guided by the number of irregular migrants arriving in Europe and that that we are not only thinking in the short term. For doing so would put migrants and refugees at risk of being instrumentalised by authoritarian regimes as a way to elicit cooperation and support.

The Coalition Agreement refers to new future partnership agreements with significant countries of origin aimed at exchange and cooperation on the labour market, as well as when it comes to the recognition of foreign qualifications, and skilled worker immigration. So far, successful negotiations have been conducted with two countries (India and Georgia). And others are in the pipeline. What role do development policy criteria and instruments play when it comes to selecting potential partners?

In fact, domestic and labour market policy criteria are more decisive factors in the selection of the countries. I would actually find it exciting to look more closely at this question from a development policy perspective. We could, for example, cooperate specifically with the countries that are hit hardest by climate change and where people are desperately looking for new opportunities.

And what about negotiation and implementation?

The Ministry for Economic Cooperation and Development (BMZ) is also involved in negotiations and implementation, where it represents the development policy perspective. In line with feminist development policy, for instance, we strive to ensure that all people, regardless of their gender, benefit equally from the agreements. We already have strong development policy partnerships with many of these countries and are able to provide tangible support. For example, our Centres for Migration and Development provide, on the one hand, concrete advice for people who want to work or study abroad. On the other hand, these centres advise governments on how to make their migration policy sustainable.

The opportunities, experiences and discrimination that come with migration are often related to gender. In 2023, the BMZ’s feminist development policy made gender equality one of its new guiding principles. What role do the needs and interests of women and marginalised groups play in cooperation on migration policy, especially in migration partnership agreements?

We incorporate this aspect in the agreements and in all our activities. We provide advice on the gender-specific risks of both irregular and regular migration. In Ethiopia, for instance, we are supporting female returnees affected by exploitation and sexual violence by helping with their economic and social reintegration. In India and Nepal, the BMZ is working on strengthening the rights and participation of female migrants employed as domestic workers. But so much more still needs to be done. In particular, we must create more opportunities for women and marginalised groups to have a voice and give them equal access to participation and resources. This is something I am committed to!

In the heated debate on migration in Germany, you are calling for objectivity and a broader view. What, in your opinion, is required to give these views and the resulting need for action even more weight, including beyond those actors who are interested in and committed to development policy on the global stage?

Over three-quarters of all refugees worldwide live in developing countries. We forget this in our heated debate, focused as it is on our overstrained European external borders and municipalities. This is not to say that these challenges are not substantial. But we also need to look beyond the end of our noses. What is important here is having more knowledge about and awareness of the global situation; next, we need less populism in the debate; and third, specific – and effective – solutions are required. These include, for example, our Centres for Migration and Development.

The interview was conducted by Annette Schlicht.

Translation from German by Carla Welch